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| IAIN Eternal Order england 18822 Posts | 3 Quote: On Mar 26, 2020, Mindpro wrote: firstly, I didn't bring it up, others did. secondly, look what you do - come in, complain about something, yet never offer anything positive - but very happy bringing everyone else down. you never discuss mentalism - you want everyone to crowd round you and talk about you and your perspective. look around you, you keep insisting on this 'me-perspective' yet don't realise this place is not packed full of full time pro's. that is not the main user base at all, and hasn't been for years. (go on, talk about bob c. again, as if he was your friend, yet wasn't - because lots of us used to talk to bob and some used to ask about if he knew you.can you guess the reply from Bob?)… what used to be, isn't anymore - inhale the reality! you don't communicate in a clear way, then push the blame onto others. | |||||||||
| WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2496 Posts | 3 Christopher Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 | |||||||||
| Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 1906 Posts | 1 Iain, I rather like the RV idea. And I’m not really big on PK. Just poking at you in a friendly way. Mindpro, if you reread the first post, the poster brings up cold reading. Iain was one of those who gave a helpful response. Also, I would suggest that when someone is new to a performance art like mentalism, it is useful to explore what feels comfortable and what doesn’t. A lot of people start out not liking to think they’ll be lumped in with the “rainbow huggers” or the “curse-curing” scammers we’ve all heard about. Plus, Derren Brown has amply demonstrated the dramatic potential of this approach to mentalism. Patrick | |||||||||
| Alfred Borden New user 27 Posts | 0 Quote: On Mar 26, 2020, Mindpro wrote: Interesting, that you think I am a magician. I used to do card tricks for a couple of months fourteen years ago and haven't done anything since. (I can't even do a false shuffle anymore. But that is not true, because to know, that I can't do it anymore would mean, that I remeber how to do one. I have no clue whatsoever anymore.) If this qualifies me as a magician, well I guess than you can call me a magician. But I don't consider me anything but a complete beginner in every field of this performing art. I also don't think, that the psychological approach is easier than some other approach. It is, like I said: I have a vast interest in psychology and I am reading books and articles about it regularly. So I already have a vast knowledge about it and when I think of the persona on stage, that I will present, I can't help but see me as someone, that goes down the psychological road. I did not choose this picture because I think, that the psychic approach is not as good the psychological one or that it is some kind of charlatanism. To be frank: I would love to do the psychic approach, because at the moment I think, that it is easier than the psychological approach. (This is my feeling as a complete beginner. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't know better as I practically don't have any experience.) So for me, asking about advice for the psychological approach is not taking the easy road, it is more about taking the only road, that makes sense right now, even when I feel, that it is the harder one. | |||||||||
| dyoung Special user 618 Posts | 2 Alfred you just have to know, that you're not doing 'real mentalism', just ask Mindpro. He won't explain what it is, just that you're not doing it. All the best, Dan | |||||||||
| 252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 2228 Posts | 2 Hey Alfred, I'd suggest looking into System 88. I think that little system is amazing. It's always surprisingly accurate and well received. I've had this dominate an evening. Paul Voodini mentions how after seeing a palm reading, all night folks will have their hands out saying 'do me next!'. Same with System 88 in my experience. Since it's a verbal personality reading, it doesn't have the same stigma some people associate with Tarot, and other traditional oracle systems. But maybe don't shut the door on these other systems. The psychological approach and psychic approach don't have to be mutually exclusive. Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium. -Theodore Annemann | |||||||||
| Mindpro Inner circle 9952 Posts | 1 Exactly, and you can do things for real. And to dyoung, you are quite misinformed, as I have spent countless posts offering such information over the years, as have others. | |||||||||
| 252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 2228 Posts | 0 Over time I’ve stopped worrying about a set persona tbh. Osterlind says he doesn’t need disclaimers because he makes no claims. That stuck me. I know we need to define ourselves, at least initially, but you can leave the door pretty wide open imo. Maybe others mileage will vary but this approach works for me and it’s more enjoyable. Anyway, this thread iwas dusty and I’m bored Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium. -Theodore Annemann | |||||||||
| Mindpro Inner circle 9952 Posts | 0 Quote: On Sep 4, 2020, 252life wrote: That simply isn't true in the full context. It's funny how everyone here loves to use Osterlind as the example of how magic and mentalism can be mixed (the rare exception to the rule once completely understood), how he makes no claims, how this and that. And almost in each of these examples, they are taken out of context or blatantly incorrect. Same for Cassidy. It used to irk Bob to no end (to the point of actually leaving this forum Penny for good) because people would take is points out of context or only in part to fit what they wanted to hear or believe. Richard has said he doesn't use disclaimers, but he would be the first to tell you directly he is doing mentalism for real, presents it as real, and in each moment of his performance is actually operating as real. THAT is what should stick with you. Also, it may not matter to amateurs and hobbyists, but it is very important to clients, bookers, agents, and promoters as it sets the expectation and selling points of who they are. For some reason, many here can't understand this. No one wants to see a fake mentalist. It will not draw paying customers. However, if it is stated, positioned, and promoted as a true mentalist, mind reader, or psychic entertainer, that will be a promotable position, it will generate interest, ticket sales, and media coverage. People will pay and want to see a real mentalist or mind reader even if somewhat skeptical. How you position yourself is about much more than just what the performers prefer (me-based), it is what is best for your business, career, the markets you are choosing to serve, and much more. So anytime someone here says 'I prefer to just let my audience decide,' it tells me all I need to know about that 'performer.' It is not about that, it is not about you, but the greater picture, your business, professional expectations, and marketability. There is much more to it than the surface level many hobbyists and magicians here chose to limit their thinking, understanding and education to in a limited perspective. | |||||||||
| 252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 2228 Posts | 0 Quote: On Sep 4, 2020, Mindpro wrote: Well you told us. I hope one day to understand my own thoughts as well as you do. Thank you for enlightening me on my career as well. I hope one day to be as wise. Thank you again. Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium. -Theodore Annemann | |||||||||
| 252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 2228 Posts | 0 Btw Mindpro, I wasn’t suggesting mixing magic and mentalism. Although I believe a few no names have done it over the years with some success. To each his own and all that. Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium. -Theodore Annemann | |||||||||
| Mindpro Inner circle 9952 Posts | 0 | |||||||||
| 252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 2228 Posts | 0 My apologies then. Crappy day and I may have an attitude and took it out here. Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium. -Theodore Annemann | |||||||||
| 252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 2228 Posts | 0 Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium. -Theodore Annemann | |||||||||
| George Hunter Inner circle 1720 Posts | 1 Read Osterland’s Principles of Mentalism for a strong rationale for not claiming anything. George | |||||||||
| Djin Regular user 148 Posts | 0 Back to the original question. Readings can absolutely fit with a psychology based persona. You are providing a reading of their personality. As long as you don't whip out a crystal ball and put on an incongruous turban you'll do fine. As an aside,pendulums can also be psychology driven because the volunteer holding the pendulum 'knows the answer deep inside, the pendulum helps them access their subconscious.' That's part of the beauty of the pendulum. It doesn't care what they believe, it just works. Iirc Brown (and others) cover effects like PK or other 'magic' with the opening patter where the so called psychological explanation is delivered. Psychology is one of the elements used to control what the audience sees, or thinks they see. After that, nearly anything goes. The audience knows that you are leading them down the garden path for the purpose of entertaining them. If you bend a spoon, so be it. | |||||||||
| 252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 2228 Posts | 0 Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium. -Theodore Annemann | |||||||||
| ipe Loyal user 293 Posts | 1 I agree with Djin. But selling PK with the psychological approach could be difficult. | |||||||||
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